I'm struggling to put together a history of Sigint as we know/knew it.
I got hold of a book on ebay by Hugh Skillen who has written a lot on Enigma and, before his sad death, was a stalwart at Bletchley . The book is called 'The Y Compendium'. Tucked away is a little episode when he talks about dinner in the mess at Chicksands "with just 3/4 Int Corps officers including a guest Lieut Guy Burgess."
I have got as far as establishing that there was no Guy Burgess in the Corps in the Y service (then MI8) so I wonder whether it was the infamous Guy Burgess and what part of the Int Corps he was in.
Back to the book, for a moment. He had been to the Records Office at Kew and has painstakingly copied out every single war diary by a Wireless Intelligence Section. It was before computers and he hand wrote them and then typed the text after over 30 visits to the P.R.O. each of 7 hours. He could only type with two fingers - just like me.
I don't know if anyone else has seen the War diaries at the PRO. I went along to research the Black Watch in Crete where my Uncle was killed and it was fascinating. All neatly typed but with the entries getting smaller and smaller. Then there was the death of my Uncle one of 15 O.R.s and one officer unemotionally recorded.
The date given by the War Office to my Mother was also wrong but I found it amazing that even in this awful retreat and fiasco such things were being meticulously recorded.
Tom Neal
Hello Paul,
I obtained a copy of the Y Compendium quite a few years ago beore Hugh died and I think you must agree that he was really dedicated to the Y Service. Reading through the lists of people serving with the various units there are quite a few names that I recognise but when I knew them had no idea what they had been involved in.
Tom
paul croxson
You are absolutely right about Hugh Skillen Tom. I have borrowed his 'Spies of the Airways' from the Int Museum and all of the Enigma compendiums (I wonder if that is the right plural). The detail and dedication is amazing but ... if only he had organized the information better. It is so difficult to follow.
I am going to take that list in the Y Compendium and check it against an Army List of 1944 if it exists and try and sort out the regiments of the officers
Gordon
Compendia, Paul, though only a real nerd would insist on it.
G
Edward Vert
Guy Burgess
Gordon/Paul
According to Webster's, both compendiums and compendia are acceptable as the plural of compendium.
Regards,
Ted Vert
paul croxson
Tom,
I finally got round to the list of Officers who served in the Y Service compiled by Hugh Skillen and compared them against the Apr 1945 Army List. I have been able to identify and place in the right Regt about 95%.
It is on a spreadsheet and anyone who would like a copy is welcome to it.
I suppose the next stage would be to go through the War Diary extracts that Hugh laboriously copied out from the records at Kew and place them all in the units in which they served.
Mike Webber
Guy Burgess brought back a memory. Fun time.
In training at Beau Manor, we were told by our instructor that the last message Guy Burgess sent to his friends was
" Have gone away unexpected "
We were told to crack the code.
I'm sure you all can, but how long did it take you ?
paul croxson
I came up with a solution. Whether it was the right one is a different matter. As I have mentioned before, you followed my path a year later. Ron Berg & I were trained, no honed to perfection, at Reservoir Barracks in Gloucester by Tom Shelton, a delightful chap. Whetther what he taught was of much use is a different matter. Was he around when you were at Beaumanor?
Beaumanor played a big role in Enigma and there was, over the years a large I Corps presence. I have got the names of over 300 officers who served there and presumably there was the odd Other Rank floating around. I have bee fossicking around in the Bletchley records today and in 1942 a lot of the I Corps went there from Beaumanor and a lot to Heliopolis. So far I have over 300 names of I. Corps officers who were at Bletchley. There were a couple of Non- comms listed but I am sure that there were plenty of them.
I am stil fighting my lonely battle to get Traffic Analysis recognised as being the vital component of Sigint that it was. There is just one recognition of it in one of the huts that have been turned into displays.
It's all a bit of a con there really. When they talk about "Hut 6" they give th impression that all the work was carried out in those ol;d wooden huts not revealing that large 2 storey blocks were built which carried the old hut numbers. The amateurs who keep the place going are really only interested in Enigma and Colossus which they are painstakingly recreating. The reconstruction is an amazing labor of love but is it worth the effort. If they were restoring the original then, I am sure that a good case could be made out for that.
David Thomas
Gosh Paul, you don’t half cover a lot of ground in a single entry! I’ll confine myself to your last paragraph as I have nothing of substance to add to your earlier words of wisdom. I am however concerned about this fossicking about you’ve been doing, isn’t there a law against this yet? If not Harriet will no doubt be getting around to it over the Christmas break?
I believe the Bletchley hut numbers were allocated on a very ad hoc basis is the site grew. As a primitive form of security, rather than refer to departments which might have given information away i.e. German Naval, OKW, or German Air, the various sub divisions were referred to by their hut numbers hence “Hut 6” which you mentioned. As the radio take grew, and the code breaking and decryption effort multiplied, then so the need for space expanded and the two storey block sprang up. The work was still the same, so the groups doing it retained their “Hut” identification.
You ask is the reconstruction worth the effort. I think the answer to this is rather like beauty, it’s in the eye of the beholder. If it’s worth the effort to the people doing it, then who are we questioning it? Up until recently they were spending either their own money or sums they had raised specifically for their project; however I believe that they have now been awarded quite a large Lottery Grant, so presumably they have convinced someone besides The Sun that their cause is just. For myself, I am pleased that efforts and money are being made to preserve something which although being extraordinary in it’s time, made a tremendous contribution to the Allied war effort.
paul croxson
It is quite true, what you say Dave.
I have been to B.P twice this week delving (since 'fossicking obviously worries you) for titbits on Traffic Analysis. I have already built up a list of the original huts, where they moved to, which blocks they became etc. The Forum might not be the right place to display it though. If anyone is interested I will happily pass it on. By the way, there was no 'Hut 13' as it was believed that it might have been thought to be unlucky. I've never had that problem even though I once lived in a house numbered '11A'.
Vast tracts of BP have been sold off for housing but not to the benefit of the MUseum. Yes, they have a lot of exhibits but many have no relevance to Sigint. Displays of life in the 'Forties' bring back memories for old Codgers (that's you Dave!) Cries of "I had one of those but the wheels fell off" and "my Gran had one of those" echo around the display rooms. A rather sad collection of vintage cars, several 'Post-War' strikes me always as being totally irrelevant.
My major gripe with the place is that the thousands of Wrens and Wracs and Waafs are celebrated and feted, being called 'Spies', 'codebreakers' (they were neither) whereas the Signals get only the briefest of mentions and the I. Corps literally nothing. There is so unjust. There were over 300 I Corps Officers at B.P whose names I have traced - there could be 200 more that I cannot confirm yet - and presumably those 'salt of the earth' Other Ranks as well. There were another 300 who served at Beaumanor and were then spread throughout the world, including BP. That's my little personal Crusade. To get us the recognition that we deserve - at least in my view!!!!!!!!
