Knock knock

marleneandgypo · Knock knock

Hi everyone

Our grandson (2 and half) has been trained now to give a 'knock knock' on the table as a greeting and yesterday it dawned on me where it began...Langeleben! The greeting in 1969 onwards whether soldier, naafi worker or German was always a 'knock knock' on the table...be it in the NAAFI or down the pub in Lelm or even the Eis Diele. Now 40 years later, little Max is doing it!

David Thomas

Hi Marlene, It was at Wessels pub in Lelm that I first became aquainted with the knock knock on the tables. I always found it a very hospitable custom, and secretly rather pleased that the Germans were good enough to include us Brits in their greetings. That and the markers on beir mats are my abideing memories of life in the Metropolis that is Lelm. Dave T.

ken vipond

Hi Dave,i must agree with you that knock knock is a fantastic custom,and if ever i had decided to live in Germany,Lelm would have been the place,a grand little village with loads of charm and loads of memories for me,best regards from Ken.

bob allum

knock knock - was looking for the stammtisch but Dave has hidden it......

Happy New Year to all.

ken vipond

Hi Bob,so nice to see that you have at last come out of hibernation,please put me out of my misery and explain to me what stammtisch is all about,best regards from Ken. Embarassed

David Thomas

Hi Bob & Ken, I must admit Stammtisch is a new one on me, I can't say I ever consiously remember comming across it in Lelm while I was there. However, having now looked it up I find it is a table reserved for regular customers; as is usual in most pubs, there was always a table of locals playing cards and drinking dupplekorn. Thinking back to the German pack of cards, they didn't bother with 2 to nine, they just played with the face cards, slapping each one down like the NAAFI shutters at closing time. Bob, Great to see you back on the site again, do you have another interpretation of Stammtisch? All the best, Dave T

marleneandgypo

yes, a Stammtisch is exactly that, a table where same 'gang' of people always sit. I know Clive and I like to sit at the same one each time...when we used to go to the pub, we don't much these days since his heart op. Now his Stammtisch is the kitchen table doing his crossword and sometimes little Max joins him.

Have to say about NAAFI shutters, I used to love that time in the morning Jim someone one the radio and the music to his show just I pulled the shutters up and I would like a pound for every man who said to me "what's the recipe for today Jim?" I'd be starving by then as Miss H would only allow us to eat in the cookhouse once a day. She wanted to save the money allocated for the 2 other meals to buy petrol. So I went to work, made all those rolls, 8 cheese, 8 egg, THIRTY cheese and onion, then when you had all been served we could have a roll as well.

Sorry....mind drifting off again....knock knock I'm off

Mike Hudson · Knock Knock

I must admit I had not heard the term 'Stammtisch' before. My first experience of this was at the Nierdersachsenkrug (Henri's) in Wallensen circa 1964 onwards. Whenever someone came to a table where there were people they knew they would knock on the table and then shake hands.
This did not only apply to the German locals greeting their friends but was also used by them to greet us, if they knew us and by us to greet them.
As a total aside, I always found the German locals to be VERY friendly and not at all aloof. They went out of their way to integrate us into their social lives and bore no resentment for WW2. Contrary to what I have read elsewhere, I found the German population that I mixed with to be considerate, fun loving and THEN, in many ways beter than the British people I mix with NOW.
Pharticus Incontinentus the Exploder Embarassed

kerby

Hi Mike and all, Felt I had to reply and endorse your comments. I held a managers position for a multi national company and had a lot of contact with a German operation and found them most friendly and respectful to work with. I was always called Mr Keith by the receptionist. Like you say, better than we get in our country. Or is it ours, Keith
Ps. There's a topic for you all.

paul croxson

It mustn't be forgotten that time heals and the relationship with the Germans changed. We were until 1955 an 'Occupying Power' and this did affect things more than you youngsters would realise. Because everything in the garden was lovely in the 60's and onwards don't for one moment think that it was always like that. It would be helpful if Peter Ellis could tell of his tribulations in 1958(?) when he applied to marry. It might surprise some of you.
It is the same with Japan. No nation could be more polite yet - look at the atrocities that were carried out and their treatment of Prisoners of War. The generation that carried them out has nearly died off and the new generation are not responsible for the sins of their forefathers.
I would hope that 'foreigners' who, by the thousand I have met in my many years travelling, working AND living abroad abroad would think from my behaviour (were I the only Englishman they had met), that we as a nation were polite too but how wrong they would be!
I don't mind calling Kerby Mr Keith if it will help foster good relations!!!!!!!!

marleneandgypo

I think Mike is right and the key is willingness to integrate on all sides. I haven't said much about this as I didn't want anyone to think I was sitting on the pittty pot, but last August after almost 8 years of faithful service the new manager at my then employment gave me 10 MINUTES notice of redundancy. Procedures were not followed correctly (and they admit that to the tribunal) and they are lying to the back teeth to get out of certain other shall we say, 'difficulties'. Suffice to say, as a union member (the company didn't know that as I am an individual member) I am seeing them in court. It should have been 8 Feb, but I heard yesterday from my solicitor that the case has had to be postponed.

Anyway, there I was at 58 and signing on and about to start selling the Big Issue in the shopping mall inbetween singing and playing my guitar outside Smiths when I saw a job using my experience in Sage accounts as well as admin work for a company called Integration Support Services. It's a charity run business to help and advise foreign people of all nationalities and races and different religions integrate into the British way of life, to to help British people integrate with them. Well, it amazed me to be offered the job at my age, but I got it and I love it. It is new and we are the first and there wil soon be another office opening in Epping. When I went to the first social get together just before Christmas, it was wonderful to see all these different people first hand mixing together and forming a community. Instead of all the antagonism I read about in the paper, here was a way to make a real difference.

I am blown away with it. At an age where I would be thinking of retirement next year, I have a whole new beginning and next month I am going on a course to learn more about the production of newsletters and media material (all paid for) in London. As I am the editor of our church magazine this is of great interest to me.

I am grateful to Paul as well when he opened my eyes last year with the heavy discussion going on and me taking remarks about Germans so personally which is an attitude that had been holding me back. All these years when someone said German and anything negative regarding Germans I HEARD (incorrectly I know) Marlene and Marlene's family and went in for the attack. It took Paul and some careful thinking to point out to me that this is not the case. There is good and bad in all races, religions and so on, it's not personal. I can't tell you how good it feels to shake off the shackles of my wrong thinking. With my wrong thinking head I may well have refused this job once I knew what it was. So thanks Paul. Many thanks.

Marlene

paul croxson

Thanks Marlene for the kind remarks and I am genuinely absolutely delighted that you have found a well-deserved niche for your Sage skills plus a different insight.
PLEASE do not get too carried away with a euphoric hope that the world is coming together in peace and harmony. There is not a cat's chance in hell that it will.
Islam ruled vast tracts of Europe reaching up to Tours in France. Spain was ruled by the Moors (who brought civilisation there) until the 1400's. Their departure brought about the search for the New World.
Then there were the Crusades when Christians felt it their duty to free Jerusalem from the Jews and the Muslims, Oh, and there was the German Crusade of 1094 (which I won't go in to for very good reasons)
At the moment we are only just beginning to see the efforts of Islam to take back what they see as their's plus their desire to spread their faith amongst we, the Infidel.
I am fearful of the World that my Grandchildren will inherit

marleneandgypo

Oh yes Paul I agree, the peace one arth and goodwill to all men idea is all very good but extremists will always blow it out of the waterif at all possible. I must admit to feeling a bit scared about taking this job as there are extremists that won't like what the charity does and a bit like the pickets outside Smithkline Beecham near where we live regarding animals and testing, I feared there might be somethign similar outside where I work, or even within the community. I thought long and hard and then on a personal level and mum not being English and having to integrate, and I thought about what you had said and discussions on here, and I felt it was an opportunity to stand up and be counted. To give back a bit of what I have been given over the years with a foot in two countries and seeing the best and worst of each.

Maybe this little pocket of what we are trying to do won't make a huge difference to lots of people. but it is helping some people and if I make a difference to just one family, then it's still worth it isn't it?

Yes it must be worrying thinking of the future for ones grandchildren. We 'only' have our little Max and he isn't expected to live beyond 30 IF he gets a new heart. But yes, even for him, it is worrying. We live in crazy times now I think.

A day at a time I guess.

Mike Hudson · Knock knock

Whilst my time in Scharfoldendorf, Langelebem and Birgelin was a little after some of you , I can honestly say that I found that the attitude of the German population to me and my friends was superb. Also, the more you tried to speak to them in German and understand their customs and habits, the more relaxed they became.
I lived, literally, with German families for a number of years and found them to be not wanting. They proved themselves to be time and time again considerate friends and I was proud to know them.
Whilst at Scharfoldendorf, the majority of the camp went to Eschershausen to sample the Bier and the life but there was a clique who went the other way down the hill to Wallensen. There we met at a Gasthouse called the Niedensachsenkrug but which everyone knew as Henri's, we were quickly accepted as regulars and made friends with people of all ages. It was the custom, that whenever a person entered the Pub and saw people that they knew they would knock, normally twice but once if they were GOOD friends and shake hands.
Henri's closed on a Thursdays, God knows why because he and the local Taxi driver, named Rudi used to pick us up and take us on a tour of neighbouring hostelries, where we were also accepted at face value.
The vast majority of the German population I found to be lovely people, Marlene being a perfect case. Yes, however there were the odd ones who were obviously followers of the Fuhrer and showed their distate. They were, however, quickly brought to heel by the normal Germans, who showed their distaste of them. I suppose it is is not dissimilar from us at this time disaffiliating from the BNP.
Providing you showed an aptitude to them I found without exception that the Germans and later at Birgelen the Dutch were excellent friends and always willing to help
Old Phart Grey Grumpy and Reminiscent Sad

marleneandgypo

Knock knock!!

LOL I thought what better way to come back after a weeks absence but with our old traditional 'knock knock'!

It has been quite a week. Although Andreas's funeral was in Germany the back drop is of course poor old mum and her sadness at losing her nephew so soon after his mother (her sister) died. Also the flowers to arrange which proved easy with the help of Paypal and my cousin Jörg. Mum does have this thing about sending cash in an envelope despite many envelopes going missing en route there and back. Someone told her if you wrap it carbon paper no one will know there is money in there. Hmmmm might be true I don't know, but for the sake of £1.50 Paypal charge we got the cash over there quickly and safely. A stamp these days with a wad of cash in it and a big envelope would have cost that.

Poor mum, modern life is a bit hard to take in at 80 years old for her sometimes and she has got the added drawback of Vascular Dementia which makes normal thinking a real struggle at times.

On top of this poor old Clive has been really poorly with his cough and cold but will he give up smoking? Nope. He never smoked until he got to Langeleben (nor did I as it happens. I gave it a long time ago, but Clive just can't seem to master it. He has the patches and goes to the clinic, but still goes outside in wind and weather to light up in the dead of night (doesn't smoke indoors at all). I am honestly getting scared now. He has had one heart op and that cough is so bad. Chris Hayles has tried to help him as well but he can't stub out.

For me, I didn't bother with patches and stuff, a master at procrastination I used it to give up. I had a cold and was coughing a lot and lit up and said to Clive "I wouldn't smoke except it clears my throat of p.....m (hate that word)" He said, "maybe you wouldn't have so much if you didn't smoke." I thought 'he's right' and put the cigarette out and vowed to only have on on the hour, so it being 10.30 am, I could have one at 11 but if I didn't then I had to wait until 12. Being a bit poorly that day I fell back to sleep and when I woke up it was 10 past 11 so I had to wait until 12. I forgot to look at the clock and looked forward to at last having a cigarette, nature called and it was 12.05 when i came out of the bathroom. "That's Ok" I thought "I can still have one but not until 1pm" and so it went on through the day and into the evening with me putting it off an hour at a time.

And so it has gone on through ups and downs in my life and at times I have still really fancied a cigarette but it has never been on the hour but one day I'll get it right and look at the clock at just the right time ...thing is, I'm not ready, I don't have any cigarettes, can't smoke Clive's...what's that you say? "go out and buy some then" well I would, but I can't be bothered right now. Wink

These days I can't see a cigarette without thinking of each new one being a new one, it's like at the start of my smoking life I was given one cigarette a few miles long and all that happens is that this one long one is chopped into convenient little bits that I have to wade through every 20 minutes or so....what is the logical point of that?

Oh dear, I hope there aren't any smokers among us here, I might put you off Laughing

Love
Marlene

Mike Hudson · Knock Knock

Knock knock, one for the Viper.
Knock Knock, who's there, Ken, Ken who? Ken we have some new, good topics on this forum.
Old Phart Grey and Grumpy Twisted Evil

Mike Hudson · Knock Knock

Kmock, knock, Marlene, my Harlow Hottie (Fag Ash Lil - ret'd). Like a good many, I smoked like a chimney in t'Army but could never smoke first thing. I smoked Capstan full strength, though this altered to filter cigarettes when I left the Army which I gradually decreased on and switched to cigars and small cigars.
I smoked these up to 1999 but only smoked when I drank, so I was down to about 200 a week (joking). Then I stopped, thanks to Tesco and never smoked again to this day. I say thanks to Mr Cohen's company because a redundancy after 28 years in the Packaging Industry, Tesco were the only company to offer me ow't and I started working nights for 6 months which was ample time for me to quit totally. Razz

Mike Hudson · Knock Knock

Knock knock, as a total aside, there is a little village in Shropshire, just off the A5, twixt Shrewsbury and Oswestry, called, Knockin. I thought that it would be ideal for Marlene and Clive to run the village shop as it is called the Knockin shop.
The present Mrs Grump, thinks I should live near to Harrogate, in Blubberhouses, I have not got the courage to get her to go to 6 Mile Bottom, near Newmarket.
Some time ago I went to the magnificent sounding Stansted Mountfichet in Essex and seem to remember there was a village close by called Ugley. My prize, however goes to the Irish, in Killmalloc, County Limerick there is 'Effin' and yes it does have a certain infamy in the world of strange names.
Over to you, I'm off to A&E, she came in and looked over my shoulder, now dislocated. Evil or Very Mad

Old Fat Grey Grumpy and Bruised

Mike Hudson · Knock Knock

Knock knock, well the villages and towns with a funny name went down like Clives smile when Marlene says 'I've had an idea'.
For those who are looking for a new place to live, could I suggest a quick trip to the town of Dildo in Newfoundland, where the average price of a 3 Bedroom Bungalow IS $35.000.
If you can't think of Hamlet names, try road names. There's a Titup Hall Drive in Headington,Oxford, or a Hardon Road in Wolverhampton. Pity the poor beggars that live in Slutshole Lane in Besthorpe, Norfolk or even Trumpers Way in Hanwell W7. There is even a 'Golden Balls Roundabout', signed as such at the junction of the A4074 and B4015 in yet again dear old Oxfordshire.
One that does tickle me however, is a house name in Newcastle under Lyme, North Staffordshire. Now this is in an area called The Westlands, where all the purportedly posh people live. "We don't live in Newcastle, we live in the Westlands" A guy has bought one of the bigger houses, put a Doric Portico on the front, copied off the original one that Euston Station used to have but instead of Euston, it reads Chuff Hall. My hero
Old Fat Grey Grumpy and moving to Slack Bottom, up near Hebden Bridge, not the one in Wiltshire, I'm a Northen Git at heart Twisted Evil

paul croxson

I suppose we had better keep the miserable old blighter happy so here's a contribution

I went to the Idle Men's Working Club - near Huddersfield I think it was. There was a gibbering idiot of a barman there. He insisted on showing me pictures from a trip to Thailand in the vain hope that I would be fooled by the BoyGirls. Fat chance of that!
I have always dreamt of being a member of the Loose Women's Institute in Kent so perhaps I could have picked up some tips from them.
Is that OK MIke????
Anyway! Why haven't you made a contribution to the History? Anything that is in I have had to painfully trawl from the Forum. tell you, after stewing on the web for a few months that stuff can be a bit turgid too.

Wasn't Tesco once Victor Value? Those were the good old days Having to queue 15 times at the various counters in Sainsbury's and David Griegs. Those tins of biscuits at the front of the counter and the pleasure of watching 1/2lb of short back being sliced before your very eyes. I can even remember when things went stale too. Now that's REALLY old

marleneandgypo

Ha ha Paul With everyone still in bed I'm not sure I should be laughing so much but your post really tickled me this morning. Idle Working Man's Club.

Marlene

paul croxson

Marlene
I don't usually go round tickling young ladies. It is true, both places and organisations actually exist. Loose is just south of Maidstone. Idle isn't om my map but 'Udson will (I guarantee) have delivered something there in his life as a white van driver and I await precise directions. It depended for its existence on GEC workers at the Huddersfield electric motor factory if I recall correctly.

Ernie Callaghan

Just thought I would let you know that the Idle working mans club is in the village of Idle which is a suburb of Bradford, it is right opposite the old Watmoughs printing works, they used to print the "Pidgeon fancier" I also used to go to the factory in the 1980s when they printed "You magazine" for us, I worked for "The Mail on Suday"

paul croxson

You could at least have bought me a drink there Ernie. But thanks for having confirmed a story that several people in the past have doubted. Next, you will be telling me that you are a member of Loose Womens' Institute. It's only just down the road from Bexley, after all.
Working for something like the 'Mail on Sunday' is my sort of job but ... what did you do for the other 6 days?

Mike Hudson · Knock Knock

Knock knock, I always wanted to change my name to Farquhar and live in Idle, then I could be an Idle Farquhar but then again Shorep always thought I was.
The connection between Tesco and Victor Value is that they were both found by Cohens, Jakob (Jack) founding Tesco and Victor the other but they were not related. They were both London companies, Tesco starting in Whitechapel, though its first store was in Edgware I think and Victor Value was from Waltham Cross. I actually think Victor V started operation before Tesco.
The year I got married (1968), Tesco bought out Victor Value for close on £2 million and actually changed the name of a lot of the North Western, smaller Tesco shops to Victor Value. I think Bejam ended up buying the Victor Value name from Tesco in the late 80's
Sorry if this has bored anyone, just be thankful I didn't start to tell how Tesco got it's name.
Old Fat Grey Grumpy and an ex Tesco shirker

Ernie Callaghan

Believe me Paul working for a Sunday newspaper is a lot harder than working for a daily, the format starts on the monday and changes hourly for the next five days, other than the feature pages all the news comes from the latter end of the week mostly on the Saturday night.
Working for Associated Newspapers for 30 years I also spent time on The evening News, the Evening Standard, the Daily Mail, Revalle, and Titbits.
With the regional papers we owned plus the various sections and magazines I ended up averaging nearly a sixty hour week plus a 3 hour daily commute after we moved from Fleet Street to Kensington and Surrey Docks in the eighties so I did not have the time or the energy to join the Loose women

marleneandgypo

Hi Ernie

Knowing what a small world this is, my cousin worked for the Evening Standard as well. Do you know any Scanlans?

Marlene

Ernie Callaghan

Sorry Marlene, don't know a Scanlon but I only worked on the Standard
for a little while, Associated Newspapers only took over the Standard in 1989 and I was declared a dionaseur with a lot of the older workers, my services were no longer required and was made redundant in February 1991 after nearly 30 years service, still they were very generous with the pay-off and pension terms and I was ready to go at the time.

marleneandgypo

ScanlOn Ernie? Wash your mouth out. The clan of ScanlAn don't associate with the riff raff that is ScanlOn. They were the rebellious lot who went off on their own and formed their own clan. They have their own crest. Ours is the one with 3 rampant lions.

Ernie Callaghan

Watch how you talk to me Marlene, I am a CALLAGHAN and decend from the kings of Kerry. I have seen the Callaghan name spelt in six different ways and I am sure that parish records have the same variations of the name of Scanlon/an/in and so on, not many could read and write in those days and those that could were too busy emigrating.

paul croxson

Just for the record...
the fact that someone in the past has been granted the right to "bear arms" does not give the right to anyone with the same surname to "bear" these arms for the foreseeable future. The whole business of a so-called 'Family Crest' is a total load of rubbish and a Con.
As Ernie rightly says, most variations are down to illiteracy at best and the subject of illegitimacy is totally ignored.
On personal note, my family had believed for years that we were descended from John Smeaton who built the long lasting Eddystone lighthouse now on the Hoe. When I researched my family over many years I was amused to find that the John Smeaton from whom I was really descended was a Molecatcher in Sheffield.

marleneandgypo

I iknow what you mean, and yes Sir I will watch how I talk to you in future, quick curtesy and Gypo doffing his cap...

In fact my Aunt even signed her own maiden name as Scanlon. It was when I went to Eire I was told of the rift between the two clans, but hey, what has it to do with me really?

History on our family is very scarce on the Irish side as my grandad died in his late 50's. He was born in 1887 in Co Clare and from the little I have found out he and his brother were put into a kind of workhouse. My grandad was taken out of there when he was about 12 to look after his disabled auntie Annie. At 19 he came to England where he met my grandmother. My grandmother was working for the Queen Mother's aunt Lady Lewis in Evelyn Gardens and met the King a few times when he came over to play cards with Lord Lewis. Grandad went to war with my great uncle Bill who never came back, and he married Grandma who still worked for Lady Lewis. My dad was born and has a French nurse and thus began a tradition of all of us being born in St Mary's in Paddington where Prince William and Harry were born. So here the plot thickens Wink

Prince Charles and I were born at almost the same time AND we are the same rare blood group. If you see me and Queen Victoria there is a very strong resemblance, we are both little and tubby...could it be? Is it possible... Wink

And if you look at Albert and look at Clive, he is a dead ringer...well not 'dead' but you know what I mean.

The latter of course is tongue on cheek but the rest is true.

marleneandgypo

Oh Paul you do make me chuckle (and spray my coffee over the computer screen in I don't watch out) sometimes, I do hope we meet one day!

As to the crests, well it's true what the Scanlan one is, but what it's all about I have no idea nor do I need to know. My comment was said in jest, but I am sure you know that.

Ha ha...molecatcher, that is priceless.

With us Scanlan's there is a distinct look we have. I have it, my son Hardy has it as did my dad and his sisters and our grandad and I sometimes wonder what the original ancestor looked like, where did the look come from? Kind of useless thought like where does the universe end and does it?

Some old photos are here if you are interested:

http://www.marlbrooks.mystarship.com/photo.html

Ernie Callaghan

Sorry Marlene, no offence meant, most of my posts are tounge in cheek,
thats the trouble with electronic mail, one cannot see the grin at the end of a diatribe.

To be serious, my eldest daughter Janice has been researching our family trees on ancester.com over the last couple of years and as far as the Callaghan's are concerned the line never seem to have moved more than a mile radious of Bethnal Green, (no freedom travel passes in those days.)
She has gone as far back as 1790 and still cannot find an Irish link so we cannot blame the potato famine or the industrial revolution for our being here, perhaps our forebearers were washed ashore after the battle of Waterloo.

marleneandgypo

No offence taken Ernie, my comments were also tongue in cheek

It's interesting this going back into family history. Mine is German/English/Irish, what a combo.

Clive's grandmother was Irish and was found as a baby abandoned in a potato field, that is so sad isn't it? I'm so glad she made it and found a home to grow up and begat her offspring giving me Clive and my handsome sons and grandson.

marleneandgypo

Hi all

Just doing a knock knock. Bit quiet round these parts lately. Hope you are all doing well.

All the best

paul croxson

What's wrong with using the door bell?
It works perfectly

marleneandgypo

Ha ha, but there were no doorbells on the tables in Lelm my friend we everyone knocked.

Strangely Max our little grandson age nearly 3 has picked up the habit from us and started doing it at the hospice where he has respite care and his German nurse said she used to do that greeting as well.

Mike Hudson · Knock Knock

Knock Knock, does this now mean I am a ' Rapper '?
Yo, watch the Charts for DJ Fat Git,
Don't like what I say,
Well I dont give Pig S**ts.
Marlene am de momma
And she has Black Tits,
Nesting in de garden! Embarassed

Always trust me or SHOREP to lower the standard. Twisted Evil

Old Fat Grey and (C)rappy