The Bogs

paul croxson · The Bogs

To me, Langeleben in the early 50's is epitomised by the toilets. How they were allowed to exist for so long in that state is to me incomprehensible, with those disgusting bits of sacking the only protection of the litle dignity and privacy there was to be had.
Why is it that there does not seem to be a single photo of them? Were they just TOO repugnant even for us to record? Perhaps there is a photo hidden away somewhere.

ken vipond

Hi Paul,i don,t think anyone would have had the nerve to carry a camera into the bogs and start taking photo,s,they would have been classed as pervs or even worse caused an explosion with the methane that never seems to disperse,espcially if they used the flash gun,or even a fate worse than death if they were accidently deposited into the filth,but it will be interesting to see if anyone does have a photo even if it is in sepia,best regards from Ken.

Gordon

I hesitate to raise this indelicate matter, but when I arrived at Langeleben early in 1958, I was surprised to find that one of the cubicles in the bogs was reserved for self-treatment of the early signs of venereal disease. In my various postings during the previous eighteen months I had never come across such a facility. Was this peculiar to Langeleben, possibly because of its remoteness?

Gordon

David Thomas

Due to my refined upbringing and sensitive nature, I have to read this topic with my eyes closed. Meanwhile, and not wanting to paint my cat blacker than anyone else’s, if you had hessian, and cubicles you weren’t doing too badly, of my five trips to Africa by far the worst experience was the state of the toilets. I very soon got into the habit of carrying a spade and spare loo roll, it made for a lively discussion if we were invited anywhere for dinner, but then as you can imagine, the invitation was seldom repeated. All the best. Dave

Geoff Buckley · The bogs

I must admit that I seemed to take my camera to most areas of the Camp, but never quite arrived at the 'honeybuckets' with it! It is definitely, most definitely, a medal job if anyone produces that picture!
My elder brothers, Royal Leicesters in Hong Kong and Royal Signals in Egypt, could never quite quite match the Langeleben bogs! And that unique character, "Honeybucket Joe", and his horse and cart were totally unforgettable.

I cannot imagine what Tom willl do if a photograph is ever submitted!

May I also say that with Tom's help I did approach the Daily Mail and Ms Monica Porter for help in our search to locate "The Vicar", but sadly she turned us down.

I have not approached the Birgelin website because their photos also referred to him as "The Vicar", so I have to assume they had the same nickname identity. It is incredible now, but it seemed quite acceptable at the time.

Gordon has spent some time searching various records in York, again without success.

Will someone either find a photo of the bogs or locate The Vicar, please!!

Geoff Buckley

marleneandgypo · Re: The bogs

We could put out a call to our wider readership of the Listening Post and see if the 300+ members who don't subscribe to this forum have a copy. Say the word and the request will be sent out in the next copy!!!!

Marlene

Gordon

Dave

Your habit of carrying a spade with you when in Africa reminded me of a curious feature of the Essene Sect (contemporaries of Jesus and John the Baptist who lived in the desert and gave us the Dead Sea Scrolls). They lived lives of great poverty and self-denial, to the extent that they had only two possessions: a white robe and a small spade with which they would dig a hole to bury their big poo out of the heat of the sun. You have my permission to quote me on this next time you are down the pub.

Gordon

marleneandgypo

And after they went to the latrines they were required to enter one of the emersion cisterns (Miqvot) before they came back into the settlement. Hygienically, that sounds like a good idea, if you have fresh running water, but there is no running water at Qumran, only runoff which was collected during the three months of winter rains....

I remember when our Ben was about 6 months old. I was happily having a bath when Marlene brings him and and dumps him in my bath asking me to clean him up as he had just done a 'poo'...she went off to sort the nappies out and I watched in horror as our lad continued what he had started and poo was floating in my bath water. I have never moved so quick or shouted so loud!

paul croxson

Is my memory really giving up or am I correct in recalling that there is something in the Koran about CARRYING 5 (the actual number may not be right) SMOOTH STONES into the desert which saved people like Dave worrying about a bog-roll. Am I the only person ever to have been charged for having used my paybook ..... no, detrails are not required? I had a reprimand from Capt. Prescott having claimed that 'I had lost it'

Bill Lloyd · The Boggs

Paul,
By the time of my arrival at Langeleben in mid '58 we had acceptable toilets, and showers, if I remember correctly.
I am sure you have mentioned this subject before sometime in the past, and I can only assume that your experience during your time there in the toilets has 'scarred' you for life!
Now, do you know a good solicitor who can raise an action against the MoD, or WD as it would be in your day, for pain and suffering you have experienced over the years? Stress? trauma? The 3 year limit on any action I am sure could be waived in these exceptional circumstances that you have bourne so bravely. The good Mrs C deserves a medal for sticking by you through these difficult years. A cool £50K should mend the wounds.
Bill.

paul croxson

Hell's bells, Bill, I am getting even more boring and now repeating myself. Apologies all round.
To clear up one point, it has taken the ministrations of three Mrs Croxsons to see me through these difficult years and two of them to reduce me to a state of penury close to that endured as a National Serviceman.
Those toilets reduced (a lot of rducing going on today) grown men to tears. No place to take your paper for a quiet read; one's stay being governed by need to go (rather than a need to know) and one's ability to hold one's breath. A less pleasant trick performed on newcomers was to light a newspaper and drop it in to the ..... just as one was leaving, hanging around just long enough to hear the yells of pain and anger. Enough of this scatological rubbish!!
See you one day Bill

David Thomas

What an erudite lot you all are, in the midst of slagging off the Langeleben bogs, we learn about the Essene tribe and Qumran. In fact the first Mrs Thomas and I visited Qumran and stayed over night there, the Kibbutz is about a half mile south of the Old Testament town, and it is possible to see the caves in which the dead sea scrolls were found. We then continued south to Masada, to see Herrod’s palace where the Essene’s staged their final stand. On the day we were there the Israeli Defence Force were holding there swearing in ceremony, they have to scale the outcrop on foot, fortunately TFMT and I took the cable car. No I didn’t have my spade with me on this occasion. All the best. Dave

paul croxson

Funny Dave, I didn't see you when I went to Masada but then, I walked up.
I think that it made a greater impression on me than anywhere else that I have been, in a spiritual sense, including all of the Christian sites which I found tawdry beyond belief - in every sense of the phrase. Looking down from the top (and you can still see where the Romans camped, watching that ramp get closer and closer must have been extraordinary - like waiting for demob (Ah, but you were a regular and wouldn't understand that feeling). What is amazing is how little evidence there is for the whole story; something like 14 lines if I recall. Ernest Gann managed to make a whole, readable book from the story "The Antagonists" and someone made a damned good film too, I recall - Peter O'Toole was it?
I had some quite interesting times with the Israelis including being introduced to General Amit. Now! He really did frighten me! To know that the Boss of Mossad knew he I was, scary.

ken vipond

Hi Paul,this subject started off as THE BOGS,and has moved onto a film with Peter O Toole in it,perhaps we could make a film of our own and titled "THE BOGS" staring Peter O STOOLE,regards from Ken.

paul croxson

Ken, Have you no sense of dignity?
Here I am trying to raise the tone of the daily drivel and then you come along - all suggestive.

Gordon

What a joy this Forum is! Two points:

1. Can anyone corroborate my recollection of the bogs as described in my post of 1 May? I don't think I imagined it.

2. Fourteen lines, Paul? Josephus wrote a whole book on the Jewish War.

Gordon

paul croxson

Gordon, you should know better than to expect us to read this stuff. Anyway, to keep the peace I went back to 1st May.
Sad to say, in the 55's/56's there was no such notice that I can recall but there was the PAC place opposite (I can't remember if it was a hut or a tent) where one went to collect what was then called a 'french letter', the word 'condom' not being used and to write one's name in the book, registering the real or imagined sexual act. Through no lack of trying I never had the opportunity to put my name down.
I knew that book Gordon but I was referring to the end of Masada with the suicide and those who lived to tell the tale. Now I've got to go and read it all again and learn to count.

Mike Webber

Mike Webber

Sorry.........only read the May 1st post, and replied. Should have read the whole thread first. Paul beat me to it. But I can confirm Gordon it did exist.

paul croxson

For the uninitiated, PAC stood for 'Prophylactic Aid Centre'.
The Military had a peculiar attitude towards sex in that if you reported that you had had some sort of sexual union (gender did not arise, from memory) so long as it was recorded in the book that you had taken the necessary precautions - namely using a condom and the ointment it was not a crime to catch VD. If you did not record the act and then were found to have a 'dose' then you were in double trouble. I never unwrapped one so cannot, sadly, corroborate the quality. All I know is that my Mother found one (still packaged) in my kit on demob and was none too happy that her poor little boy might have been near girls who 'did' things. Oh that I had!

paul croxson

Mike,
There is a distinct possibility that you may have taken over from me at Langeleven in July '56 as discriminator of B Watch (the nearest to heaven that I have reached until now). Did I leave a packet of Players on the table?

RonB

I wonder what a psychiatrist would make of the fact that an item with the heading ‘The Bogs’ elicited more replies than almost any other subject on the general list of the forum? Does age make one more conscious of the problems associated therewith?
And talking of ‘trick cyclists’ – was it you Paul who sold me that bike in June ’56 for 30 bob? No back brake, fixed wheel and drop handlebars. The vendor said it was easy to slow down using the pedals. Wrong! I lost control on the first steep hill outside Langeleben and almost became ex I Corps long before my due time.
Regards
Ron

paul croxson

Funnily enough, Ron, Langeleben was one place my faithful old Claud Butler did not get to. It survived two visits to Maresfield and a stay in Cheltenham at the Montpelier Spa Hotel. It finally met it's doom in Stamford Way Norbury SW16. The back wheel went back, the front went forward and I sank painfully on to the crossbar. The best reason for having a ladies' bike I ever came across.
The Bogs has a long way to go before it reaches the I Corps posting which reached many thousands of readers.
Are you going to konigslutter?

RonB

Thanks Paul. The reason I asked was that I bought the bike from someone going on demob at about the same time as you. I sold the bike on when I left.
Yes, I am going - just have to sort the trains from Hannover to to KL. Look forward to seeing you there.

Ernie Callaghan

Hi Ron, thought I should give you instructions. After going through the Airport arrival area you turn left and walk about 300 yards down the main walkway, keeping to the left following a green S sign you finally reach the entrance to the S Bahn, you take the S bahn train to Hanover Haupt Bahnhof and then book a ticket direct to Konigslutter, you will have to change at Braunschweig which is just a matter of changing platforms. The whole journey should take about 90 minutes. You will be lucky to get a cab at Konigslutter station as there is only two in the town but the hotel is only a 15 minute walk away. At the front of K station take the right hand road Gerichtsweg for 300 yards, this brings you to Braunschweiger Strasse, turn right and the hotel is approx another 300 yards on the left.
When booked in the hotel go straight to the bier garden and order a litre of the best.
Hope this helps.

paul croxson

I will be arriving Wednesday PM to help set up the exhibition in the Town Hall so I should be in the Bar when you arrive and so should Pete Ellis, Bob Wells and Rusty so our 'Lot' will be well represented, 3 of us from '56 B watch, not a bad effort!.

Ignore Ernie. I'll buy you a beer when you get there!

kerby

Paul, Stop making me jealous. Keith

RonB

Thanks Ernie, having the ibstructions will save me a lot of time and hopefully avoid my being seen in a state of bewilderment.
Thanks also, Paul - looking forward to meeting the team.
Re the cabs - I think there were only two when I was at Langeleben. But it wasn't a bind to walk from K to L in those days, except in the pouring rain.

M1j6horn

I booked mine on line on the DB website, and reserved a seat, from the airport to KS via Hannover Hbf (Change from platform 1 to platform 10) and Braunschweig Hbf (Change from platform 7 to platform 8 ), total train time is 1 hour 26 minutes including the 22 minutes waiting time between trains. Cost including 2 euro's e/w for reserved seat was 42 euro's return.

I hope that helps.

Regards

Tom Allum

RonB

Thanks, Tom I'll try that.
Ron

The Bogs

The bogs

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The Boggs