Voice, Morse or both?

BrianK · Voice, Morse or both?

An ex/Bootneck friend of mine has come up with an interesting argument/disussion. It seems in the Times (someone must have either read it out or explained it to him!!) quite an argument is under way. The case in point is what is the difference between a Radio Operator and a Wireless Operator? Seeing that he belives I'm an expert(?) on all things radio he asked me what I thought? After a bit of pen-sucking I finally came up with my solution a) Radio is voice, Wireless is morse or b) ain't no difference. He seemed satisfied with that but after all, as I said, he is a ex-Bootneck! I'm sure that at least one of our learned friends on here could enlighten me/us? I await your answers with anticipation and so does he.

BrianK
RAF Handorf (Munster) '56. Langeleben '57 '58.

Tom Neal

Hello Brian,
The word wireless predates the word radio which is why 1 Wireless Regiment became 13 Signal Regiment (Radio) when all the Royal Signals units were retitled in 1959.
Tom

BrianK

Hello there Tom,
Many thanks for your reply, I seem to remember that it was 1 Wireless Reg. during my time but not sure if you've answered my question or not. Must be having one of my many senior moments but 'fraid it doesn't tell me which is which i.e. whats the difference between a Radio Operator and a Wireless Operator? After reading your text should I conclude that there ain't any difference?
Thanks again......................Brian

David Thomas

Hi Brian, Your question deserves a bit more of a reply than Tom gave you, so I’ll chip in with the definitive answer. Back in the 50’s when even Paul C was young, my Mum and Dad always referred to the radio as the wireless, even although it was provided by Redifusion and the signal came via copper wire (a bit like cable TV today). They looked up their programmes in a thing called Radio Times which was the only newspaper allowed to carry the schedules. Way after everyone else on this site, I joined the Army and learned to operate a Radio, voice at first, then morse and teleprinters, but it was all over Radio. So there you have it; if you’ve run out of hair, it’s a wireless, if your hero’s were the Beatles then it's Radio. I should play safe with your ex-Marine friend, if he’s bigger than you, simply agree with him, and have another pint. All the best. Dave T

Gordon

Yes, I agree. "Wireless" means to me a mock-mahogany box about as big as a small suitcase that my Mum and Dad used to listen to ITMA on. It was full of valves that glowed, and was always being repaired. "Radio" means something about as big as a cigarette packet or smaller, probably made in China, never breaks down, and is so cheap that nobody would dream of trying to get it repaired even if it did.

Gordon

BrianK

Gordon and Dave T,
Many thanks for your replies. I also remember my Mum and Dads radio, as you say, big as a suite case. We once owned a bungalow (wooden shack) on the Lincolnsire coast and when we went for the whole of the summer holidays went our protable RADIO ('cept it wasn't) also. I believe it was bigger than the one at home!! There was a shop about two miles away and my cousin and I had to cart the batteries there to be charged, I believe they were called accumalator batteries. No 'lecky on site you see. I know they were bloody heavy and the very kind parents actually made us a kind of frame to lug these things to the said shop and then lug the spare re-charged ones back again!! Every Saturday morning!! Getting off the point but I shall info. my Bootie mate and see if it helps. Not as big as me actually but a dangerous type chappie when roused................!!
Brian.......................

Gordon

Brian

You're rousing some very old memories! We thought ourselves a cut above households whose wirelesses ran off accumulators. Ours ran direct from the mains. My pal Ray who lived across the road had the chore of taking their accumulators to the garage to be charged every few days. I can see him now, and hear him, slamming the front gate to show his distaste at this chore. Looking back, I'm not surprised ours was always breaking down, since we stored old newspapers on top of it (and anything else for which we couldn't find parking space). It got so hot with all this insulation that it's a wonder it didn't burst into flames. "What did you listen to, Grandad?" "The News, naturally, Workers Playtime, Appointment with Fear, Arthur Askey... It was great". "And Grandad, what are all those tall poles in people's back gardens, with wires running to the houses?" "Those me lad were aerials. Our wirelesses wouldn't work without them". "You're having me on, aren't you Grandad?"

Gordon

David Thomas

Hello Brian, George, Tom and All, I have to claim to be even more modern than Gordon, our radio was also mains, it had a lead which we plugged into a two way connector up in the centre rose of the light fitting, then the flex looped across the ceiling to the set which was high up in the corner. One of my eternal memories is the smell of warm dust and melting shellac when we turned it on to listen to “The Archers” and “Journey into Space”. One time when I got home from School dad was having difficulty getting the set to work, he tried all four stations (remember this was a Redifusion set) but could only get sombre music on one of them. It was Feb 6th 1952 and later we learned that King George Vl had died. Any other claims to fame? Dave T.

Gordon

Dave

"Warm dust and melting shellac". I love it! You've got it in a nutshell! It's a wonder we're here to tell the tale. The wireless wasn't the only device to be powered from the nearby 15-amp round pin socket outlet. Another cable went out of the kitchen window, looped its way past the wash-house to reach its destination in a garden shed, where it ran among other things a quarter-HP motor driving a Myford lathe. I can only think that a Divine Providence was saving me from electrocution so that I could eventually join that wonderful body of men (and NAAFI girls) at Langeleben and play my part in preserving Western civilization.

Gordon

Mike Webber

A SUNDAY NIGHT AT HOME 1946

Liverpool born and Liverpool bred,
Six in the house and two to a bed.
A sprint to the toilet
In the cold back yard,
When the snow was falling
Life sure was hard.
But never mind,
We`ve got the warm coal fire,
Though there`s not much heat
Through the fire-guard`s wire.
Whose turn now to throw on coal?
The fire`s dying-bless my soul!
Hey there you! with your knees all red,
If you won`t fetch coal then go to bed.
Get the loaf out, lets have toast.
The one who makes it has the most,
The fire now is really hot
As fast as you toast, they scoff the lot.
Never mind, I`ve got the crust,
And for curly hair they say it`s a must
Shush! The radios on.
Listen before the battery`s gone.
"We three from Happydrome,
Members of the BBC,
There`s Ramsbottom, Enoch, and me."

David Thomas

Hi Gordon, Now you’re just trying to make me jealous. Jealous because we didn’t have 15 amp power sockets, ours, like yours were two pin, but it was just 3 amps sufficient to run the lights, it wasn’t until the mid 60’s that we had SWEB in to install power throughout. Dad showed me how to push the two wires into the socket and keep them there with match sticks, I don’t’ recall ever repairing a fuse with silver paper or a nail, but I know some people did. The other reason I’m jealous is the Myford lathe, I’ve got a Record lathe and a converted pedal lathe now, which I use most weeks, but I’d kill for a Myford, All the best. Dave T.

Gordon

Dave

I kept the Myford until 2000, when we moved to a smaller house, and sadly it had to go. It went to the charity Tools for Self Reliance, and I trust is still giving good service somewhere in Africa. I too now have a Record, which I have mounted on retractable wheels so that I can move it to the end of the garage and get the car in as well.

Gordon

David Thomas

Hi Mike, I didn’t mean to ignore you, it’s just that I’d typed up my reply to Gordon, while you were slipping your poem in. Can one ask if this is a take over as site laureate from the Ugly One? Down south here even in 1946 we could afford coal for our fire, mostly because Dad worked on the Railways and part of the attraction was subsidised fuel. Every so often a wagon would arrive and dump half a dozen railway sleepers and a ton of coal, being the only boy in the family it was my job to shift it from the front garden into the coal hole. All the best. Dave T.

Gordon

Mike and Dave

We three were clearly hewn from the same rock! Enjoyed the poem greatly. It was my job too to shovel the latest delivery of coal and coke to the back of the coal cellar. Nothing like sawn and split (Great Western, mostly) railway sleepers to get the fire going. And when it was going, my! what a heat! Scrap lead could become molten and ready for pouring into animal moulds in a matter of minutes, though if I saw my grandsons doing any such thing unsupervised today I would probably have a heart attack. You see I too have become a victim of the current health and safety climate. I did actually spill molten lead into my leg on one occasion. You will not be surprised to learn that I never made that mistake again. It wasn't the lead that hurt; it was having to tell my Dad that I had been so stupid.

Gordon

Mike Webber

Dave and Gordon,

The stories of the old wireless sets got the memories flooding back, listening to Happydrome in front of a roaring fire and making toast using an extending wire toasting fork. I can still taste it, hot toast, melting butter and homemade jam.

The poem seemed appropriate although not entirely accurate in my case, I'm Devon born and Devon bred (and as the inscription in Powerham Castle reads "Strong in thee arm and thick in thee 'ead" )..........strong in the arm is stretching it a bit these days.

What is the attraction of molten lead to young boys ? I used a bunsen burner for the process of making lead soldiers which were quickly despatched by airgun in the garden. The joy of adding water to Calcium Carbide in a tin, sealing the lid and waiting for the bang. And Flashpower offered several dangerous but exciting opportunities. Like you Gordon as a Parent and Grandparent I now cringe at the thought.

Regards to you both,

Mike.

Gordon

Mike

Hilarious! One might think, with all your early talent for handling firearms and explosives, the army would have found a place for you in the RAOC or Gunners. But no, they send you to the I Corps.

Gordon
(I Corps; at Langeleben February to August 1958)

BrianK

Slightly going off the subject but who remembers the first TV set being installed at home? Came home from school to find a chap on the roof putting up an 'H' shaped bit of kit on the roof attached to the chimney stack. One clever little dick in the crowd that had gathered informed all and sundry thet it was ''a TV ariel'' Went in and there it was sitting on a largish table in the corner. A 12 inch screen in a bloody huge cabinet!! 'Touch it and you lose your fingers' were my instructions. I was told that we'd got it for two reasons. Home Moss was now transmitting and it was the Coronation in a few weeks time. All of a sudden I was the most popular kid in the street come 5pm, Childrens Hour. I was limited to five friends and two had to bring their own seats!
Came the great day, family only of course, young 'uns at the front, elderly got the decent seating and the rest where they could fit in. Curtains drawn. Had an Auntie Carrie who always seemed to be very jolly and smelt permanently of pear drops which she dispensed from a grey draw string bag. She stated that she would have a small sherry evey time God Save the Queen was played and this she did. Was escorted to lay down just after lunch and we kids were told that she felt worn out with all the excitement. Found out years later that she was a bottle plus a day girl and what a war she had had! Very friendly with our American cousins and popular rumour had it that D-Day was planned in her back kitchen!!
Always remember the interludes when something used to go wrong and we were treated to the Potters Wheel, a trip down the Broards or a windmill going round ans round which we sat (in the dark) and gazed at!!! All this well over 50 years ago........................!!

BrianK. D/F OP. Handorf '56 Langeleben '57 '58

paul croxson

How memories have come flooding back!
Young Webber, talking about 'Discriminators'. That's what we were called on the better days. And B Watch too. I had the pleasure for 15 months of that shower 1955-56. Wonderful lot and there are quite a few on the Forum too still. Even young Wells stirs his ancient bones to write a word or two now and again. Wake up Fred and Bill!!!!
All that talk about accumulators. Wasn't there a battery too for the HT and LT. Rubber aprons and vats of acid. Can you imagine it nowadays, letting us 8yr olds carrying those things full of acid? Risk assesments, what are they?
We too had just the one 2 pin plug on the window cill. It looked like a bloody Xmas tree eventually!
Our Tele, a Vidor (made in Wales, £57.00 on HP. The first thing ever in the house not paid for!) arrived in time for the Coronation too. Being a staunch Republican (that was before I was a Pacifist), I didn't want to watch (beneath our dignity) and we arranged to play tennis. The Queen beat us though. The courts on the Rec were closed. My sister had invited half of her Medical School along and our 12' X10' back room was packed out.

ITMA - "Can I do you now , Sir"?. And Funff was always "speaking". No. I won't forget the diver either, Oh, Col Chinstrap, I don't mind if I do, also.
It's Monday Night at 8 o'clock and can't you hear the chimes, it's telling you take an easy chair. We were allowed to stay up only for the 'deliberate mistake'.
Who can name the panel of the Brains Trust?. They were on the Home Service, not the Light Programme

Finally, there was a definitive answer to the radio versus wireless question published in the Time too. Trouble is ... I forget what it was!
What about Uncle Mac and Larry the lamb, not forgetting Mr. Mayor. Life - apart from the V1's and 2's was so simple in those days!
Back to the Horlicks and ... "Goodnight Children everywhere" and TTFN

Bob Wells

Yes I'm still around Paul and as I'm not playing golf this evening I thought I might go down memory lane.
Collecting the accumulator was one of my weekly tasks during my school days. Not only ITMA but DICK BARTON SPECIAL AGENT, at a quarter to seven each weekday evening. As for the telly well that was something we went to see on a Sunday evening. It wasn't on for that long, just long enough to see 'What's my Line' followed by a variety show.
I remember the 1953 Coronation being on the box, not that I watched it because I was on guard duty in the rain at 6(BTR) Beverley.
Oh yes when I went up to Catterick I did the OWL course which was Operator, Wireless and Line. Now that was in 1954.

paul croxson

Hello Bob, good to read you! I actually enjoyed watching the Birkdale golf. That's a 'First'
Jock and Snowy, two more names for the Dick Barton fans. Wonderful stuff. Were we to have missed an episode the World would have come to an end. Sunday evenings after Church we would all go to Pat and Barbara Brown's house to watch tele until 8.30 and then I would walk home with Liz Stewart who never returned my affections. I met up with her 20 years later but sadly the magic had gone. I just didn't fancy her. That's life.

paul croxson

Ron Berg stimulated by our wit and knowledge has finally succumbed and is joining us.
Before doing so he reminded me that our old instructor on all things 'Sigint' taught us
"W/T = wireless telegraphy = morse & R/T = radio telephony = voice".
That seems as good a summary as we will ever get.
Anyway, Ron, from now on you can send your own comments. Hope to see you in Konigslutter iun 2009

GerryK · Brains Trust

Having nothing better to do on a sunday afternoon. Looked up the "Brains Trust" on Wikipedia. The original panel were, Chairman, Donald McCough, members, CEM Joad, philosopher/phychologist, Julian Huxley, biologist, AB Campbell, naval officer. Hope you approve Paul !!

paul croxson

I still have my modelmaking Emco lathe with every attachment (milling etc) up in the attic. I still dream of bringing it down and using it again. Fat chance!
Is it just me? the older I get the more time I have and the less enthusiasm I have for utilising it. I've got several so-called hobbies and just don't get round to doing any of them.

P.S I am not sure but Ramsbottom and Enoch and me I think 'worked for the BBC' rather than were 'members'.

"What did Horace say, Winnie?" Who used to say that? I'll give you a clue H..... H........
And another thing. Everyone claims to remember the Ovaltinies but they were only ever on Radio Luxemburg so that could not have been true.